Author Topic: Pangaea CP-100 Suggestions  (Read 3434 times)

pedroa

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Pangaea CP-100 Suggestions
« on: March 16, 2016, 07:21:37 pm »
Hi,

First of all, thank you for making such an awesome piece of equipment. I got it a couple of weeks ago and I am delighted with the tidiness, sound and potential of the CP-100.

After reading much of the posts here http://forum.guitarplayer.ru/index.php?topic=327782 (I am from Portugal and so google had to give some help as I don't understand a thing of Russian)
I noticed that you are preparing a bigger second version of the CP-100 with effects and midi and spdif in a stomp like box (probably following the Torpedo CAB design... but smaller and with more external options).
That's cool and I wish you the best of luck with the "second generation" of the CP-100.


Now, regarding the "first generation" of the CP-100, here goes my suggestions:

1) I see that there is a new firmware (ver. 2.2) that lets you see what is the IR name by pushing the ESC button, that's helpful. Still I think it would be much better if you reduced the size of the numbers of the bank:preset vertically and, bellow that you'd scroll the name of the IR file (I say scroll because some IR file names are very long for informational purposes with cabinet name, microphone used, position and so on).

2) I know that the unit only accepts mono IR files, but it outputs stereo signal. It would be great if it accepted stereo IR files, so we could have different cabinet sounds coming from the left and the right output signal. And I say this even if it was at the cost of bigger latency. But not at the cost of worsening the mono IR quality as it is. Since we can't change the presets with external devices, and we can only load one IR file at a time, I see no need for 10 banks of 10 presets. 5 banks of 10 presets is more than enough and you can save memory for the bigger stereo IR files or firmware improvements.

3) If that is impossible, I would be satisfied if we at least could define a delay in microseconds between the output of the left and the right signals. Not delay as in a full blown delay pedal (or delay unit). Just a simple microsecond setting to create a gap and separate the output signal between the left and the right signals. Between 0 ms and 40 ms would be enough to create a wider sound. Your reverb effect already makes a very nice stereo effect but it makes reverb reflections and that is not what I am looking for. Think of it as a "widener".

4) Would be great if it accepted bigger files, even at the cost of loosing banks and presets. I would prefer 50 bigger (better quality, with more samples) IR files presets than 100 (lower quality) presets.

5) Since the "first generation" CP-100 does not have a midi in to control the preset selection externally, what do you think about attaching a dual latched pedal (like a boss FS-6) and connect it to the aux in, to, at least do UP/DOWN preset selection? Is that even possible to "sense" a footswitch instead of audio through the aux-in?

6) I already have tons of equipment with tuners, but hey if CP-100 could do that too, that would be cool too. Not really essential, but neat.

Other than that I really like the CP-100, I like it's small footprint, it's sound and it's inbuilt functions.
I am really not interested in the Pangaea for chorusing, reverb or "yet another effects processor" stompbox (I already have those elsewhere), I see it as a specific "always on" cabinet simulator tool, and for that purpose the "first generation" CP-100 it's simply awesome. For it's price it has no competition.

Congratulations on a really great piece of gear.

Cheers

Alexander AMTsupport

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Re: Pangaea CP-100 Suggestions
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2016, 05:01:08 am »
Thank for your proposals, they are very helpful. I don't think we will not be able to do much with CP-100. Some tasks can't be done because of not a too powerful DSP in it. The new device has a really powerful DSP and I think all the function could be implemented. Thanks one more time.

Alexander AMTsupport

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Re: Pangaea CP-100 Suggestions
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2016, 09:09:32 am »
Hi,

First of all, thank you for making such an awesome piece of equipment. I got it a couple of weeks ago and I am delighted with the tidiness, sound and potential of the CP-100.

After reading much of the posts here http://forum.guitarplayer.ru/index.php?topic=327782 (I am from Portugal and so google had to give some help as I don't understand a thing of Russian)
I noticed that you are preparing a bigger second version of the CP-100 with effects and midi and spdif in a stomp like box (probably following the Torpedo CAB design... but smaller and with more external options).
That's cool and I wish you the best of luck with the "second generation" of the CP-100.


Now, regarding the "first generation" of the CP-100, here goes my suggestions:

1) I see that there is a new firmware (ver. 2.2) that lets you see what is the IR name by pushing the ESC button, that's helpful. Still I think it would be much better if you reduced the size of the numbers of the bank:preset vertically and, bellow that you'd scroll the name of the IR file (I say scroll because some IR file names are very long for informational purposes with cabinet name, microphone used, position and so on).

It's me again. I made a translation of your suggestions and gave it to all engineers who are taking part in the projects. They find them very useful and probably some of them will be implemented. The most amazing thing is the way you got the info from Russian forum with a help of Google. It is not an easy task, especially understanding that it is hardly in Russian (I mean, men there do not  write in a Google style).

Thanks
Alexander

pedroa

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Re: Pangaea CP-100 Suggestions
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2016, 12:08:07 pm »
Thank for your proposals, they are very helpful. I don't think we will not be able to do much with CP-100. Some tasks can't be done because of not a too powerful DSP in it. The new device has a really powerful DSP and I think all the function could be implemented. Thanks one more time.

On the contrary, I really think the CP-100 already has a pretty powerful DSP.
Powerful enough to make flawless cabinet simulation, extra equalization, extra stereo room reverb, extra high and low cuts, extra bank/preset usb storage...

Considering all of these features, I truly think that it can easily make something like output the right signal some miliseconds apart from the left signal. I am sure your engineers would laugh at how easy this would take to accomplish even with this DSP.

But I understand that this DSP may not be enough to handle stereo IR files or longer IR files, that is CPU consuming. Hence the higher latency it would require. But 1.2 ms latency is fantastic, I wouldn't mind to have stereo IR files even if the latency would be up to 5 ms.
Most people record with USB interfaces with latencies of 10 ms IN and 10 ms OUT (and higher) and can't feel the difference.

But I can also understand that the "first generation" CP-100 is not a priority for you guys, because you want to concentrate your human resources on the new one.

Perfectly understandable, but please don't forget that the "first generation" CP-100 is still the one that you have actively selling and creating revenue for your company, and your buyers can only purchase the "first generation" CP-100, and what they are buying for now is a top-notch cabinet simulator.
Therefore at this moment in time, adding some possibly easy features through firmware would make strong selling points now, from a buyers point of view, for AMT.

I know I can "work-around" all my needs with other gear I have. For instance, the CP-100 does not accept more than one IR at a time... no problem, AxeOMatic can render combined IR files for me. No stereo gap? no problem, use a very slow rate/speed stereo chorus (like a marshall supervibe, boss ce/ch or a nux mod core), or a very low time with zero feedback stereo delay after the Pangaea. Can't change presets by foot? no problem... make sure you cook the right IR file from the thousands of IR files out there and leave it always on. :)

It's me again. I made a translation of your suggestions and gave it to all engineers who are taking part in the projects. They find them very useful and probably some of them will be implemented. The most amazing thing is the way you got the info from Russian forum with a help of Google. It is not an easy task, especially understanding that it is hardly in Russian (I mean, men there do not  write in a Google style).

Thanks
Alexander

Welcome back and make yourself at home :)

Well that's great, tell your guys they rocked the place with the CP-100.

The google translation is very bad indeed, but knowing what is being talked about, we can decipher what is actual information, from sarcasm and foul language :D
Besides it is the only really active source of up-to-date information regarding the CP-100, and I liked reading it.

To be truly honest with you, I just hope you guys don't forget that CP stands for Convolution Player, I am afraid that the Pangaea may loose its identity and what it should aim to do best.
Thing is, you can aim at being a line 6 helix or a torpedo cab with effects, but that would probably make an unaffordable product for most people who are searching for a tidy high quality IR player (yet competition wise affordable), to sonic expand their already existing pedalboards/amps rigs.
And for that purpose the "first generation" CP-100 is just perfect.

By the way, what is the price, in EUR, you guys are thinking for the "second generation" CP-100?

Thank you Alexander for taking the time to reply and I wish you the best of luck with this product.

Alexander AMTsupport

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Re: Pangaea CP-100 Suggestions
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2016, 01:25:38 pm »
Frankly speaking, we are surprised to your clear understanding of the issue.
We are agree practically with all you've said.

Dogman

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Re: Pangaea CP-100 Suggestions
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2016, 03:02:02 pm »
Hello Pedroa,
thanks for bringing some life to this forum and chiming in with nice suggestions.
Regarding the latency vs. features issue btw. I would prefer to keep the CP 100 as it is, should more features require more processing time (and thus higher latency). 1.2ms is fantastic, 5ms might be bearable too, but the crux for me its that it all adds up:
Use a digital effect on your pedalboard - 2ms (or so) more. Monitor through a digital mixer 2ms more. And that´s a very realistic scenario that I encounter a lot of times. If one of the components is plagued with higher latency than that you quickly approach the 10ms mark, which to me personally is unbearable.

That being said:
Alexander thank you too for your product, which is helping me a lot with recording. I would like to use it live too but unfortunately it seems to be unreliable. After the update to v 2.0 my CP 100 froze about once a day and had to be restarted to let signal pass again. I checked with different power supplies, different outlets, different cables - no dice.
After upgrading to v2.2 I was relieved that the Pangaea seemed stable again. I had it working for a few days but just today it froze in the midst of recording once more.
Is that a known issues (and if so will you be able to fix it in the next firmware) or do I have faulty hardware and should return the CP100 to my dealer to get it fixed?

Thanks for your answers in advance, btw. I´ll visit your booth in Frankfurt at this years Musikmesse.

Alexander AMTsupport

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Re: Pangaea CP-100 Suggestions
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2016, 10:44:39 am »
Dogman, I sent you a personal message. If you didn't get it, please write to support@amtelectronics.com

pedroa

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Re: Pangaea CP-100 Suggestions
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2016, 04:29:31 am »
Hello Pedroa,
thanks for bringing some life to this forum and chiming in with nice suggestions.
Regarding the latency vs. features issue btw. I would prefer to keep the CP 100 as it is, should more features require more processing time (and thus higher latency). 1.2ms is fantastic, 5ms might be bearable too, but the crux for me its that it all adds up:
Use a digital effect on your pedalboard - 2ms (or so) more. Monitor through a digital mixer 2ms more. And that´s a very realistic scenario that I encounter a lot of times. If one of the components is plagued with higher latency than that you quickly approach the 10ms mark, which to me personally is unbearable.

Hi,

I understand your concern, but I would accept that risk for having stereo IR processing only.

Anyway, people at AMT are more focused in the next generation of the Pangaea, so I guess they will not try to make it possible to load stereo IR files on the first generation Pangaea.
Not even, make a microsecond gap feature between the left and the right signal I'm afraid.

Still, to me this is a very useful piece of gear as it is.

As to problems, when I got my CP-100, it came with ver. 2.0 and it is working without any issues, so maybe your unit is faulty.

Cheers

Dogman

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Re: Pangaea CP-100 Suggestions
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2016, 01:11:00 pm »
Hi Pedroa,

thanks for your thoughts!
And thanks for the info regarding your CP-100 working flawlessly.
That gives me hope all will be well in the future as I just got a replacement unit and will test it out during the next days.

pedroa

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Re: Pangaea CP-100 Suggestions
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2016, 01:56:04 pm »
Hi Alexander,

I saw your post http://forum.guitarplayer.ru/index.php?topic=327782.msg9343687#msg9343687
Thanks for translating our conversation. :)

Cheers and have a nice day.

Alexander AMTsupport

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Re: Pangaea CP-100 Suggestions
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2016, 04:40:11 am »
Hi Alexander,

I saw your post http://forum.guitarplayer.ru/index.php?topic=327782.msg9343687#msg9343687
Thanks for translating our conversation. :)

Cheers and have a nice day.

Hi. There was a hot discussion of the Pangaea and people wanted to make it more complicated. So forgive me, but I have to give them your arguments. But we had to accept some of their hints too.

Alexander

pedroa

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Re: Pangaea CP-100 Suggestions
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2016, 03:26:22 pm »
Having "hot" discussions is a good thing, it means people are passionate about your product, and are willing to engage in an exchange of productive ideas.

My personal experience with the Pangaea has been specifically on recording, and when you are recording you have no need for preset change, audio interfaces remove the need of spdif output, you can stereo expand the signals easily with other pedals or plugins.
So the existing functionality is just fine by me.

Until now, I only had one issue with it.
It was a screen freeze, the buttons did respond, so I could change presets/banks, but the screen simply froze and did not update as I was playing and changing the banks/presets. But I am not really a careful guy when it comes to connect and disconnect cables from pedals into the Pangaea, so maybe that freeze was something I did not connect correctly. Only happened once and I could not reproduce the issue again ever since.

I haven't tried it on a live situation yet, but I am confident it will hold up, as I am not intending on changing presets in the middle of a show, and my experience with recording is that I can leave the Pangaea on for several hours without issues.

I am still on firmware 2.0 because I see no need for either versions 2.1, 2.2 or even 2.3 that I read it is more stable.
Version 2.0 is stable enough for me, and one thing we all should know... "if it ain't broken, don't fix it".

I leave here links for the people who may be reading this topic:
Version 2.0: http://amtelectronics.com/new/pangaea-soft/Pangaea_V2.0.rar
Version 2.1: http://amtelectronics.com/new/pangaea-soft/Pangaea_V2.1.rar
Version 2.2: http://amtelectronics.com/new/pangaea-soft/Pangaea_V2.2.rar (shows the preset file name pressing the ESC button)
Version 2.3: http://forum.guitarplayer.ru/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=327782.0;attach=2109000 (reported to be more stable)
Version 2.4.1: http://amtelectronics.com/new/pangaea-soft/Pangaea_V2.4.1.zip (stable release on 06/06/2016)
Version 2.4.2: http://amtelectronics.com/new/pangaea-soft/Pangaea_V2.4.2.zip (optimized code. stable release on 08/06/2016)
Version 2.5.0: http://amtelectronics.com/new/pangaea-soft/Pangaea_V2.5.0.zip (added TUNER. Long press the EDIT button for tuning, press the ESC button to exit tuner. 22/06/2016)
Version 2.5.1: http://amtelectronics.com/new/pangaea-soft/Pangaea_V2.5.1.zip (according to user requests, refined the "TUNER" interface 23/06/2016)
Version 2.5.3: http://amtelectronics.com/new/pangaea-soft/Pangaea_V2.5.3.zip (Improved the overall stability of the device. Fixed bugs. 29/06/2016)
Version 2.5.4: http://amtelectronics.com/new/pangaea-soft/Pangaea_V2.5.4.zip (Fixed a bug that occurs when displaying the parameter "Presence" in a previous firmware version. 04/07/2016)

NOTE: Uprading the firmware is as simple as extracting the file from the rar/zip file and placing it in the root of the Pangaea usb disk.

Another nice utility that azodeeps made is an editor for the Pangaea, that can be found here:
https://yadi.sk/d/ycED9W2Zr4ic8



For now I will be recording with it and waiting for a firmware that comes with some neat extra features  ;)

Cheers
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 11:56:32 am by pedroa »

Dogman

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Re: Pangaea CP-100 Suggestions
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2016, 01:09:00 pm »
Hey Pedroa,

thanks for your informative post as well as the links to the firmware and the editor.
Looks like a useful program, unfortunately I can't try it as I´m on a Mac.

As for the firmware:
after having lot´s of freezes with firmware 2.0 - 2.2, even after AMT swapping my hardware (thanks for this amazing service!) 2.3 seems to be stable for me at last.
I´m keeping my fingers crossed, but over the course of the last two weeks everything went fine, not a single crash, despite me using the Pangaea heavily, loading custom IRs and editing the onboard EQ.

pedroa

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Re: Pangaea CP-100 Suggestions
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2016, 02:14:27 pm »
Hi Dogman,

Yeah the editor looks really useful, not sure if the developer will ever make a Mac version of it though, and I am not sure if a Windows emulator on Mac will do it.
He said he might release the source code someday... who knows.
I guess you have to dial your settings the old fashioned way for now.

I am glad that your unit is finally working and it's stable.
It's time to enjoy it. :)

Cheers

pedroa

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Re: Pangaea CP-100 Suggestions
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2016, 04:26:05 pm »
New firmware version 2.4.1 is out:
http://amtelectronics.com/new/pangaea-soft/Pangaea_V2.4.1.zip

Release notes:
"06/06/2016 - V2.4.1 - Changed the internal algorithm of the system to improve the stability of the device and fix sudden processor lockups."